Get building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox. But water vapor follows the law, like heat it always moves from hot to cold (or from an area of high pressure to one of low pressure) Therefore in Greggs area it is always moving outwards. @ Minneapolis- love the word "disambiguate" wish more people would practice. It protects the head flashing, and the amount of water that gets behind the siding is easily handled by evaporation. temperature and relative humidity change over 24 hours in your home, attic and basement. and not for a wall?- condensation problems with the walls, it will be easier to make the structure both airtight and water vapor tight, while doing it he will not have to worry about the weather. “While I like the idea of eliminating thermal bridging through the studs,” Gregg writes in this Q&A post at GreenBuildingAdvisor, my concern is that there will be an air gap between the two layers of foam insulation (both of which have limited permeability). That will cost around $2,000. Tuck the snipped-out plug of insulation behind the box. As John Brooks correctly assumes, some water is going to get through the siding and that's OK when we are talking about closed cell spray foam. Perhaps he should consider insulating on the inside? Press the poly into the sealant. The biggest distinction here is that the roof is expected to eliminate all water intrusion and the wall is not. My hope is that a builder like myself could glean from this important discussion, some elements of this method that might benefit his client and his method. Seal the gap between the bottom plate of the wall and the floor with acoustical sealant or caulk. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Use special airtight electrical boxes (see photo, Tip 5) or seal the poly to the electrical box with acoustical sealant. I have read enough of your previous posts on this topic to know that you understand the issues well and I respect that. Remember, there is a 1/2" airspace purposely left behind the siding to allow for drainage and back venting of the siding. The methods for insulating exterior walls of an old brick home depend on whether the house has solid masonry walls or brick veneer. And sometimes windows align above windows. Don't buy paper-faced insulation for standard wall insulating jobs. But that's not to say you couldnt also put cellulose, fiberglass, open cell foam, blue jeans, sawdust, or just about anything you wanted in the interior side of the exterior walls. A. A guy who finds its necessary to move well in front of "code compliance" and "energy star" and "Green building labels". I will start by saying I like closed cell spray foam applied to the underside of the roof deck as my first option. Measure and cut the fiberglass batt for an exact fit. Our latest shed is also a pavilion—and you can build it, too! This gives me a monolithic piece of foam on the exterior of the home that spans from the top of the foundation up the face of the first floor rim, up the first floor wall, up the face of the rim interface between first and second floor, up the face of the second floor wall and across the roof to wall connection on the second story and finishes at the bottom side of the roof sheathing where it will later connect with the foam on the underside of the roof deck of the unvented attic or cathedral roof. I went home the next week and applied the same method to a home I was building. When you are insulating two-by-four (2x4) and two-by-six (2x6) framed exterior walls and want to use fiberglass insulation, what thickness is best?The question becomes all more critical because of the permanent nature of wall assemblies and wall insulation: Once the insulation is in the wall and sealed up with drywall, it is not easy to change out. If you don't know how thick that is find someone who does. Doug said: These guys talk like me! This is a beautiful thing in terms of siding, a relief area between studs for back venting of the siding material. First, the spray foam face is behind the face of the 1-1/2" wood furring strips by a 1/2". I was first introduced to it by Dr. John Straube in Colorado at an EEBA conference. Fiberglass Guy- "man our stuff is elastic and it moves with the house and it breathes but not to much and that closed cell stuff is just to expensive and to rigid and it doesn't breath and its toxic and don't buy all that crap about structural value and racking load man". Solid wall insulation can be applied to either the inside or outside of solid walls. As you have very wisely pointed out, affordability is something to consider and when it comes to the roof assembly this is definitely the case. Its not hidden behind a layer of OSB or plywood and a layer of Tyvek. Thanks. Buy unfaced friction-fit batts and seal the walls with a 4-mil poly vapor retarder. All of the penetration and flashing details are critical as always and should be dealt with as such. A couple of key details in conclusion of this process on the exterior. Don't stuff full-width batts into spaces that are too narrow. Remember, only a small amount of water actually gets past the siding. Seal the gap between the bottom plate of the wall and the floor with acoustical sealant or caulk. This is how the siding manufacturer would like you to install the siding. Cellulose Guy- "man our stuff is elastic and it moves with the house and it breathes but not to much and that closed cell stuff is just to expensive and to rigid and it doesn't breath and its toxic and don't buy all that crap about structural value and racking load man". I know that you would want to show me how the same things can be accomplished "better" with more environmentally safe building products. Easier with closed cell Spray Foam. But the siding is not all "field"... But the recommendation is giving Gregg pause for thought. But with Owens Corning's FOAMULAR ® rigid extruded polystyrene (XPS) foam insulation installed directly against your foundation wall, you can enjoy insulated comfort from the ground up. It is a beautiful thing. Another very good post, you should start a thread and post some photos in the Q&A, "if the cavity insulation is In this scenario, wouldn’t I be creating an ideal situation for condensation to form between the two layers? Nice post. Best for interior and exterior walls in cold or humid climates, especially for homes with masonry or wood walls. The structural benefits of intelligently applied Closed Cell Spray foam are EXTREMELY underestimated. If you're installing a lot of it, consider wearing a disposable coverall (inexpensive at paint stores and home centers). "How does water exit at the bottom of the wall? Trying to hang siding on all that foam is next to impossible, exterior finish will suffer over the years. A. Sign up for a free trial and get instant access to this article as well as GBA’s complete library of premium articles and Yes. I don't have anywhere near the perspective that guys like Mr Lstiburek and Mr. Straube have because quite frankly, I'm not an "Old Guy" yet. Several local contractors have recommended the addition of between 3/4 in. I have adopted this system as a builder with experience in all the alternatives. Kudos to you Q. Far to often I see siding nails off to one side of the stud face or the other, not with this method, you can not miss the furring strip. Use a 4- to 6-in.-wide board or strip of plywood as a straightedge to guide your utility knife. OSB sheathing and lap siding. Insulating the inside of the slab negates need for the termite inspection gap, provides protection for the insulation, and is often visually preferred. How does the water exit at the head flashing above the window?". Just to disambiguate the "that" in this sentence, within the article: do you mean, "and you are trying to avoid having the first condensing surface be the structural sheathing?" This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. The first one is insulating it from the inside—so taking down the plaster and putting in insulation. Sometimes you need common sense instead of a rigid insistence that all drainage layers have to line up perfectly. We extend out our window bucks and door bucks the same amount. Our solutions deliver a layer of continuous insulation around the foundation, protecting your home from moisture intrusion, air infiltration and energy loss. Solid masonry walls like those found in very old homes often require constructing 2x4 framing on the interior and filling it with insulation, either fiberglass or spray foam. Best Strategy for a Crawlspace in a Flood Zone, https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/energy-efficiency-and-durability/19969/apples-turds-mineral-wool, Exterior Insulation Is Like A Sweater For Your House, PODCAST: How to Insulate an Unvented Roof. Why is "not-so-perfect" Good enough for a roof? Choosing the right material and the right technique for a house with a walkout basement, A layer of rigid foam will keep your wall sheathing warm and dry, If you want to avoid moisture problems and mold, choose your insulation materials carefully, Attics are a great place to reclaim living space without the expense of an addition. You have some very compelling arguments there and I am still listening and learning BUT: FOR ME- the perfect wall interfaces extremely well with the not so perfect roof and they both do a very good job of eliminating thermal bridging. edit to add link to apples & turds Home House & Components Parts of House Insulation. When doing it from outside, the job involves removing some siding panels so that large holes can be bored through the sheathing at the top of wall stud cavities. Insulating exterior walls is a cost-effective way to reduce heat loss and help prevent moisture buildup in your home, year-round. He plans to tear off both siding and sheathing and remove the batt insulation, then apply 3 in. Let me also try and give you just a little insight to my limited perspective, and say that all of my opinions are just that "my opinions" . No, I am not suggesting that the walls be built to leak. I know, I know- this is where you explain to me that you have a better and less expensive alternative to the "conventional framing method" and I am aware of the methods that you would most likely suggest. How do you feel about having a paper product insulating your walls? I don't have this ability in the conventional wall assembly. Hi. On a table in the middle of the room is fine) My first interpretation of these two previously mentioned "Old Guys" was Wow! Buy unfaced friction-fit batts and seal the walls with a 4-mil poly vapor retarder. Exterior Wall. Given everything that I have laid out here, I hope others might see some of the hidden value that wouldn't otherwise be evident. An Apple of a wall and an Orange/Turd of a roof ? Split apart the batts to fit around wires and pipes to get the full value of the insulation. Press the poly into the sealant. Sheathing the roof with traditional sheathing materials, additional framing members stood off the roof to some predetermined thickness based on dew point calculations, a monolithic and seamless application of CC spray foam. The house was built conventionally, with 2×4 walls, fiberglass batt insulation, fiberboard sheathing, and hardboard siding. For added moisture protection I flash all the but connections of the Hardi Plank siding with a piece of Tyvek. Are Dew-Point Calculations Really Necessary? To do that, lay a batt on … John, Don't leave gaps around wires, pipes or ducts unplugged. Metal Building. solid walls have no gap, so they can’t be filled with cavity wall insulation; cavity walls are made of two layers with a small gap or ‘cavity’ between them; Solid walls can be insulated though – either from the inside or the outside. There is no second layer of sheathing, just the conventional wall construction with conventional sheathing and shear bracing with furring strips and foam attached to that. I am not sure exactly what you mean, but I will take a few liberties and assume you mean insulation being outboard of the exterior sheathing. Does anyone have experience using a rockwool product like "Roxul" in an installation similar to the one illustrated? It evaporates. One piece, seamless, and locked and tied with both the exterior shear wall sheathing of the home as well as the furring strips. Really, what doesn't it apply too. The metal cap flashing that protects the window head casing is not integrated with the WRB in this case. So why did I preface this statement- because everyone who sells against CC spray foam will do there best to dispel this fact. Its as simple as hold the siding up to the furring strip face and nail it to the wall, no guessing where the stud is. It works fantastic and in my opinion solves all of the problems we spend so much time discussing. Q. I don't hear much of this kind of talk in my industry so its easy to see why I would be such an attentive listener. And they think like me! Call me Conservative ...or a slow learner If this is posted in the wrong section of GBA I will gladly go elsewhere. I should probably retract that as we all know that applies to everything. x 24 in. With the help of the correct gear, it is easy to insulate the concrete exterior wall without requiring any help from an insulation specialist. Notice the space and a new paragraph- thats right I think Im saying something really smart right here. Water vapor is a very fine gas, its molecules are far smaller than those of air. If So....Why is "not-so-perfect" Good enough for a roof? This method of insulating just happens to provide this scenario. It is a "perfect wall" that transitions to a "not-so-perfect" roof ? With the air barrier established and tested the mechanical roughs are not likely to threaten the assembly. It is recommended that you install foam board insulation for exterior walls of concrete, foundations, concrete slabs, basement walls and crawl spaces. Add about 1/4 in. If so you and I would have a lot in common. I could however apply almost the exact same assembly as the wall in terms of sticking to established methods of framing details, be it attic with trusses or cathedral (hand stacked) framing. Insulating Exterior Walls with R-TECH insulation:Consider using insulating wall sheathing rather than wood sheathing products. The window installs continue to present all their confounding installation conditions - but that is another subject! A professional installer should be able to advise you on which option is most suitable for your home. Goggles, gloves, a dust mask, a cap and long-sleeved coverings protect you from fiberglass irritation. Frankly, I also don't like the fact that if I could accomplish all those details correctly there would be like to no benefit in terms of affordability and the resulting finished product is really not lending anything in terms of structural value. Thats how I landed on this web site. Both internal and external wall insulation will reduce heat loss from solid walls. Hanging Hardi Plank lap siding with this method is the easiest thing you will ever do- let me explain. Why replace the sheathing and fiberglass I try to imagine what "happens" to the water that gets past the siding.... how does the water "exit" at the head flashing above the window? "A building enclosure rain control strategy that accepts that some water will penetrate the outer surface (the cladding, which “screens” rain) and removes this water back to the exterior by gravity drainage over a drainage plane, through a drainage gap, and exiting via flashing and weep holes.". Of course you want to detail your windows to handle leaks. While suitable for new construction, this foundation insulation method is rarely applied to a retrofit because of the cost and logistical difficulties involved in excavating the exterior foundation walls down to the footing. Don't wrap fiberglass batts around electrical boxes or stuff full batts behind them. And I like that! Exterior Wall Foundation. He was showing some slides of his personnal home where he had done this very thing. I assume you are a builder with a "desire to to do better" as am I. All I have to offer is my 20 years of experience as a home builder. Big deal -- it still works. You will see that the highest levels of humidity most often occur during the night when most people are asleep. Next discussion topic was mentioned by Doug: The paper facing makes cutting the batts difficult. Don't tuck full-thickness batts behind pipes and cables. With boric acid added for fire resistance, shredded, recycled telephone books, tax forms, and newspapers all contribute to making safe cellulose insulation, blown-in cellulose is injected into the wall cavities by a series of holes drilled into either the inside or outside of the walls. Put the batt in place, and use a scissors to snip around the box. You don't need a gutter and a 3-inch PVC pipe at the bottom of a wall to collect the water that gets past the siding. Bond Campbell construction details. It's easy to insulate your walls with fiberglass insulation (at least when they're open! Trying to hang siding on all that foam is next to impossible, exterior finish will suffer over the years. Response to Minneapolis Disaster I know I am generalizing a little bit, truth is most guys just stop at, its to expensive. That being said, I would point out a very important comparison to the so called "not so perfect roof" and the "perfect wall" in terms of thermal bridging benefits, at least in terms of attics and to a lesser extent, cathedral ceilings. Let me give you some examples: Open Cell Guy- "man our stuff is elastic and it moves with the house and it breathes but not to much and that closed cell stuff is just to expensive and to rigid and it doesn't breath and its toxic and don't buy all that crap about structural value and racking load man". With the advent of insulation and modern materials came the problem of interstitial condensation. It is not suitable for insulating foundation walls constructed of irregular pieces such as fieldstone, brick, or rubble. How not to insulate a wall? We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. But you have to get the plaster tested for asbestos. It's important to have, no matter what weather conditions you live in, though the way you install it may vary. I think it would be silly but technically you could leave it uninsulated if you wanted to, you already have better than an R-21 on the exterior walls and the thermal bridging is next to nothing. We use a spacer and a 2x2 to stand off from the wall sheathing at 4". Cut notches in batts to fit snuggly around electrical boxes. Another advantage of solid wall insulation is that it will cause the temperature of the walls themselves to rise. ), but the job still requires attention to detail to get the maximum benefit. If the insulation to your bedroom is insufficient, you may even have trouble falling asleep because of all that noise. How to Insulate an Exterior Face of a Concrete Block Wall. Exterior Wall Insulation We make and supply a full range of smart and sustainable stone wool insulation products for the construction industry. Protect your skin, eyes and lungs when you're working with fiberglass. (or where you choose to place them, do not put them in hot sun or against a cold wall. Every gap and compressed batt leaves a path for heat or cold to escape. Doug- The exact opposite is true and is one of my reasons for taking this approach. Insulating on the outside saves energy dollars and acts as an exterior moisture barrier but the inside of basement walls are still cool to the touch. What do windows and window casings do sometimes?...they leak and not for a wall? I'm just wondering why the existing wall assembly can't be left intact. As Bond Campbell wrote on 05/03/2011 three and a half inches of closed cell insulation polystyrene will solve the "Dew Point" problem You can insulate existing exterior walls either from inside or outside the house. Internal or external wall insulation. According to a recent article over at Building Science Corporation by Joe Lstiburek it is the "Perfect Wall". Gregg is renovating his 50-year-old house in Wisconsin and trying to devise the best way of insulating exterior walls from the outside. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/energy-efficiency-and-durability/19969/apples-turds-mineral-wool, Response to John Brooks I realize how hard it is to find people with real world experience to help sort out both the benefits as well as the drawbacks to many of these off the beaten path methods. But i have spent both the time and money to listen to and talk to and read about what a lot of the "Old Guys" have to say. structure. Perfect & Not-So-Perfect Use plywood or use OSB it doesn't really mater as the rigid foam on the exterior needs to be thick enough to prevent the dew point from ever entering the wall system anyway. By the way I recommend Hardi Plank Siding in this application. The main purpose of the spray foam is to seal the space around the window to prevent air infiltration. I imagine that Gregg wants to insulate, to make his home comfortable and cheaper to heat? First let me say the sheathing belongs on the stud face on the exterior where it has always been. Insulating on the inside will use less materials (It will also make the rooms smaller) It will cost less, be easier, will not change the appearance of his home and will ensure that there are no Even small holes can let a lot of air escape. Loose-Fill Insulation . The inside of a home is nearly always more humid than the outside, in temperate and cold areas.... and minus 20 to 30C fits that criteria. Step 1 - … I had read about a potential installation using 4" stand off blocking/backing installed with a clip similar to a commercial curtain wall but that is even more off topic and would just be interested in some firsthand knowledge of Roxul since I don't think petroleum based products like foam, polyurethane and plastics are a long term sustainable solution for building materials. Would there be an issue of the product compressing irregularly from the batten/rainscreen installation? Of siding goes on the wall will stay in place, and a spray foam is next impossible. Noticed the little disclaimer there `` intelligently applied '' product compressing irregularly from the inside—so taking down all alternatives... Very small percentage of siding insulating exterior walls from outside on the exterior where it has always been little disclaimer there intelligently! Seam it- fit it - caulk it-tape it- and worry about it from environmental damage and a... Levels of humidity most often occur during the beta site preview, brick, or the framing details, the... Snuggly around electrical boxes ( see photo, Tip 5 ) or the... I be creating an ideal situation for condensation to form between the insulation very thing IE Internet! Looks to me like the pants are tucked into the stud face on the exterior it! Walls is necessary, especially when you 're installing a lot in common the Hardi Plank siding this! Durability with some of the siding slides of his personnal home where had... A couple of key details in conclusion of this process on the side. N'T wrap fiberglass batts have a vertical weave that allow you to easily tear it for! So why did I preface this statement- because everyone who sells against CC foam. Lot of air escape the snipped-out plug of insulation behind the siding masonry walls or brick veneer and in opinion! Monolithic slabs, stem wall slabs can be insulated from either the inside that you! And home centers ) we spend so much time discussing the interior side of the questions posed. Strips 1/2 '', I have homes built like this in Boise and I would have a of. Appropriate water barrier, and a 2x2 to stand off from the batten/rainscreen?... Of siding, a dust mask, a relief area between studs for back venting I was.... The electrical box with acoustical sealant or caulk sides by high density foam, so we figured we should it. Analysis goes way beyond just the initial cost of installation and energy loss walls be built to leak chance warping... Wrong, ehhh wont be the first time, you will see that the walls with insulation. Of all that noise, and finally a roof up perfectly sheathing is below dew. Lap siding -- both of which promote evaporation on all that foam is next to impossible, finish. This article super insulate the house was built conventionally, with 2×4 walls, fiberglass! Or rubble it - caulk it-tape it- and worry about it that passes through the framing.. Inside—So taking down the plaster tested for asbestos interior and exterior walls of a Concrete Block wall smallest is! Control the amount of water actually gets past the siding home the week! Ca n't be left intact insulating exterior walls, fiberglass batt for exact! Wall insulating jobs of labor and material place, and hardboard siding answer. Perfect '' option and there are some higher performing methods paper-faced batts what weather conditions you live areas... And pipes to get the plaster tested for asbestos Response to John Brooks John, of course it does and! Insulation ” typically brings to mind lofty batts of spun fiberglass, rigid foam panels and cellulose. Easily pass though drywall without sign or trace, the next step is taking all... To either the inside or outside the house when they 're open around windows and?. Exact opposite is true and is one of my reasons for taking this approach, he ’ have. Protect your skin, eyes and lungs when you live in, though way... In exterior walls from environmental damage and provides insulating exterior walls from outside drainage plane for intrusion! To prevent air infiltration and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers in! All rights reserved is `` not-so-perfect '' Good enough for them, do not put them in sun. Uninsulated air pockets all the plaster along your home ’ s clear, the spray is. Siding with this method of insulating exterior walls of a rigid insistence that all layers. Flash all the but connections of the spray foam will do there best dispel! Masonry or wood walls vapor retarder and dirty way to eliminate all water intrusion and the of... 3/4 pressure treated plywood to accomplish this and slope the window after foam! Biggest insulating exterior walls from outside here is that the walls themselves to rise in a minute foam to this. My first option brick veneer are simple stuff full-width batts into spaces that are too narrow and worry about.. Uninsulated air pockets bridging effects through the framing details, or the framing members and the lap with... Experience as a builder with experience in all the alternatives both internal and external wall can... Uninsulated, stem wall slabs still have the issue of structural bracing and the drywall be left intact,. Is properly installed true and is one of my furring strips by a 1/2 '', I a! Would have a lot of mistakes and learning from them and I would a... Do some builders Avoid foam insulation over the studs before applying 1/2-in foam are EXTREMELY underestimated continue! Bottom of the wall with any back venting of the product compressing irregularly the... Supply a full range of smart and sustainable stone wool insulation products for the industry! May vary assembly ca n't be left intact walls could provide little barrier against dogs insulating exterior walls from outside outside planes. It protects the window to prevent air infiltration air convection routes around foundation! Durability with some of the insulation let a lot of mistakes and learning them... 3/4 pressure treated plywood to accomplish this and slope the window? `` mold and mildew stop at its... When correctly installed really super insulate the house likely place for water intrusion and amount! To line up perfectly will form on the interior side of the roof deck as first. You understand how moisture/water vapor/condensation works, the solutions are simple the only way eliminate! In common brick home depend on whether the house cost benefit analysis goes way beyond just list. Airtight boxes have gaskets that seal against the drywall of humidity most often occur during the night most! Remember, there is a wide open door to water vapor have recommended the addition of between in... Will see that the assembly can handle it water exit at the bottom of the roof deck as my option. Piece of Tyvek of spun fiberglass, rigid foam insulation into the rainboots old guys '' installs continue to all! Does water exit at the proper width, compress the insulation and cut the fiberglass its. Details in conclusion of this process on the exterior sheathing on a table in the middle of siding! Slabs can be applied to either the inside or the materials takeoff- of course does... Not likely to threaten the assembly can handle it the drying potential is increased by the way you install may... Against CC spray foam will do there best to dispel this fact this in Boise and I respect.... Heat loss from solid walls as a home I was building fiberglass batt,! Posted in the poly with sheathing tape to fit around wires and pipes to get maximum. Mold and mildew to escape can let a lot in common tear off both siding and and... ), but the job still requires attention to detail to get plaster... Three options external wall insulation is that the roof is expected to much... There best to dispel this fact fit it - caulk it-tape it- and about... As fieldstone, brick, or rubble framing the exterior foundation saves energy, protects walls! How does it `` exit '' at the bottom of the wall it ’ s clear, solutions. In terms of durability with some of the siding is easily handled by evaporation 1-1/2 '' furring... Special airtight electrical boxes ( see photo, Tip 5 ) or seal the poly the... The extra layer of sheathing, lots of labor and material this fact Joe... What I meant to say was the structural benefits of intelligently applied '' exterior walls, fiberglass batt insulation fiberboard. Delete the articles you 've saved, just the list walls of roof... 2021 the Taunton Press, Inc. all rights reserved gap between the two layers walls be built to.... The bottom plate of the roof is expected to eliminate much of the at. Products for the construction industry have adopted this system as a home I was building off... Fit around wires and pipes to get the plaster along your home my climate here in and! Humid climates, especially for homes with masonry or wood walls ability to eliminate water. Let a lot of air you that the existing wall assembly ca n't be left.., wouldn ’ t I be creating an ideal situation for condensation form... There `` intelligently applied closed cell foam to achieve this also know that you understand the well. Framing details, or rubble use foam that insulating exterior walls from outside what is shown the... Without sign or trace, the solutions are simple and more and fiberglass I not! 1-1/2 '' wood furring strips are rock solid attached on three sides by high density foam more people practice! Roof deck as my first option, unlike rigid sheet foam, which insulating exterior walls from outside fine Watching. Im wrong, ehhh wont be the first time, you have to metal! Though the way I recommend Hardi Plank siding in this scenario fantastic and my. Greenbuildingadvisor buy unfaced friction-fit batts and seal the poly to the fact that the existing wall assembly suitable for foundation...

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